The Rising of the Shield Hero

[Momogari]

  Spoiler:  

I noticed the King looked at the Pope after the other two heroes admitted bitchprincess interfered in the fight and someone was telling the pope something. I find this interesting.

I like Naofumi as a character. Nothing about him is ideal, so this is definitely an antihero story, and now that he has a curse something or other they're definitely emphasizing it. I find this interesting and enjoyable as well.

If I had anything to say about the slavery issue outside the affects the anime intends to present, it wouldn't be about Naofumi because it's a part of his story. He's willing to be the bad guy because he's both angry, bitter, and afraid, and that's understandable on a human level. Frankly, I think anyone who's lived in the hood/slums/ghetto for any period of time can relate to this, and I'm one of them. Rather, I would only say that I wish Raphtalia had a little more respect for her freedom. I find it unfortunate that she has absolutely no sense of her enslavement being wrong in any way.

The other two heroes were pretty cool when they questioned the match, yeah. I think Motoyasu is simply fluff for brains and is just an easily malleable status symbol for bitchprincess. I'd almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such an annoying prick anyway.

bitchprincess and king bitchprincess I definitely hate more. They're clearly bullies. In fact, schoolyard bully social mechanics describe the aristocracy pretty well I think. I detest bullies because a big part of their psychology is lack of empathy. Motoyasu was struggling with empathy, so you know he has some. the bitchprincess oyako were just upset their little plan didn't work.

Come to think of it, they've had something against the shield hero from the beginning. It seems strange that this should be the case. The heroes, I thought, were beings of legend and hadn't been summoned in living memory (iirc), in which case neither king b.p. or b.p. should have any personal grudges against the shield hero just for being the shield hero, but that's obviously what it was from the start. It seems tenuous to hypothesize some family legacy over the issue but that's the best I can think of.

[unoduetre]

  Spoiler:  

I noticed the King looked at the Pope after the other two heroes admitted bitchprincess interfered in the fight and someone was telling the pope something. I find this interesting.

Yeah, that's interesting, I agree.

  Spoiler:  

I like Naofumi as a character. Nothing about him is ideal, so this is definitely an antihero story, and now that he has a curse something or other they're definitely emphasizing it. I find this interesting and enjoyable as well.

If I had anything to say about the slavery issue outside the affects the anime intends to present, it wouldn't be about Naofumi because it's a part of his story. He's willing to be the bad guy because he's both angry, bitter, and afraid, and that's understandable on a human level. Frankly, I think anyone who's lived in the hood/slums/ghetto for any period of time can relate to this, and I'm one of them. Rather, I would only say that I wish Raphtalia had a little more respect for her freedom. I find it unfortunate that she has absolutely no sense of her enslavement being wrong in any way.

Yeah, I agree it's an antihero story and should be treated as such. It just annoys me when someone treats him as a hero. He's not. And I totally agree with you about Raphtalia. She has slave mentality. As said before, at this point I do not have any compassion for him, so I hope the show will not assume I have. That'd be annoying. I also get what you mean about the "life is tough" part. But I consider it bad also because he did it to his only ally in that world. That's why it was so bad. You know, it's like beating one's wife. I get a guy who lives in a ghetto beats other people in the street e.g. to get money or something. That's kind-of understandable. But when he beats his wife that's a different story. Well, maybe the whole thing will teach him something.

That's inside the story. Outside the story… Well, the only problem I have is when people are deluded enough to treat him as a hero and her as an ideal woman. It annoys me and that's all. But at this point I think the show addressed the issue of her slavery in a satisfactory way, so that's fine. Nothing more to say about it.

  Spoiler:  

The other two heroes were pretty cool when they questioned the match, yeah. I think Motoyasu is simply fluff for brains and is just an easily malleable status symbol for bitchprincess. I'd almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such an annoying prick anyway.

bitchprincess and king bitchprincess I definitely hate more. They're clearly bullies. In fact, schoolyard bully social mechanics describe the aristocracy pretty well I think. I detest bullies because a big part of their psychology is lack of empathy. Motoyasu was struggling with empathy, so you know he has some. the bitchprincess oyako were just upset their little plan didn't work.

Come to think of it, they've had something against the shield hero from the beginning. It seems strange that this should be the case. The heroes, I thought, were beings of legend and hadn't been summoned in living memory (iirc), in which case neither king b.p. or b.p. should have any personal grudges against the shield hero just for being the shield hero, but that's obviously what it was from the start. It seems tenuous to hypothesize some family legacy over the issue but that's the best I can think of.

Yeah, she's definitely a bitch. That's quite obvious. But the shield hero was a naive idiot as well. It's not an excuse for her behaviour of course. I dislike them both almost equally. The spear hero is an idiot as well. The only reasonable ones are the two other heroes, but they seem to be opportunists. But at least they have SOME moral standing, which they showed in the last ep.

Maybe there are parts of the prophecy about the shield hero which we don't know (yet). E.g. that he'd become a king or something. That'd be interesting.

[Momogari]

  Spoiler:  

Maybe there are parts of the prophecy about the shield hero which we don't know (yet). E.g. that he'd become a king or something. That'd be interesting.

Oh, that's a good theory. A hidden prophecy seems much more likely.

That also makes the pope's conversation more interesting, because if a hidden prophecy that would upset society exists, then the aristocracy in general don't know it, I think, while the pope, presumably involved in the knowings of prophecies and such, likely would.

[drill]

Really good episode imo, whole scene after the fight was executed really well.

  Spoiler:  

The sword and bow heros are much more likeable than what i remember their manga equivalents being. Spear hero is near that of the king/princess level where he is basically just looking for an excuse to ruin Naofumi. Part of him is being controlled, but like the other two heroes, he shouldn't have let himself be that convinced about Naofumi. Also, did anyone else notice the shear difference in levels between Naofumi and spear hero? It was like a whole 40 levels, but Naofumi still won; that is pretty bad. xP Anway, I have always found anti-hero stories fun to watch/read, as you get to see as the darker side of the protagonist creates scenarios/plot progression you would otherwise not see. Quite refreshing to have in an Isekai.

[unoduetre]

[mention=84697]drill[/mention]

Yeah. There were other isekai stories with morally dubious main characters, but it was more about the moral standing of the whole series that was dubious, so they weren't antihero stories, but hero stories with a different definition of what a hero is (e.g. "How not to Summon a Demon Lord"). Unfortunately, I didn't agree with that definition so it was painful to watch, because they constantly assumed that I agreed and that I saw the main character as a hero. But this show is different. It is aware that its main character is not a hero (or at least he's not a hero YET, maybe that's why there is the "raising" part in the title; I wonder if the whole point of this is to show how he'll BECOME a true hero, that'd be amazing!). So yeah, it is quite refreshing! Let's see how the plot progresses!

[Momogari]

I classify a hero story as anything in which a character is characterized by the ideal form of one trait or another, like, they represent some ideal, even if that ideal is a bad one. If I remember it correctly, I say Youjo Senki is a hero story, yet the ideal in that case is ruthlessness.

A lot more anime are hero stories in this way than western media, but this anime isn't. Naofumi isn't ideal anything.

[unoduetre]

[mention=6444]Momogari[/mention]

It's interesting what Wikipedia says about it:

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antihero

"An antihero or antiheroine is a main character in a story who lacks conventional heroic qualities and attributes such as idealism, courage and morality. Although antiheroes may sometimes perform actions that are morally correct, it is not always for the right reasons, often acting primarily out of self-interest or in ways that defy conventional ethical codes."

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero

"A hero (masculine) or heroine (feminine) is a real person or a main character of a literary work who, in the face of danger, combats adversity through feats of ingenuity, bravery or strength; the original hero type of classical epics did such things for the sake of glory and honor. On the other hand are Medieval and modern heroes, who perform great deeds for the common good instead of the classical goal of pride and fame."

And:

"The definition of a hero has changed throughout time."


I think the change was an influence of Christianity. I suppose what they call the classic version was the original proto-indo-european one.

[Momogari]

My use of it is much the same: a hero is characterized by a positive trait, but I simply clarify that "positive traits" can simply be those that are enjoyable to experience in fiction. I believe our enjoyment of such stories is very much the same phenemonon regardless whether the trait is a good or a bad one, and so needing a separate term for it when the trait would be undesirable outside of fiction is silly. Antihero wouldn't work because it means something different: an antihero, in my usage, is a protagonist who has bad qualities that prevent us from idolizing them like we do heroes.

[drill]

  Spoiler:  

I would say it is highly likely that Naofumi doesn't actually support slavery so much as this is him trying to cover up being scared of being alone in this world that does nothing but haunt him. Remember, from the very beginning he was never actually given a chance to team up with anyone, and then gets betrayed by the whole country, and is basically told just to go die in the invasion. No one will seriously team up with him at this point (as seen in the bar scene), and he can't level up on his own. Raphtalia's "betrayal" as well wasn't as clear in the anime version (or as intense), but basically it only goes as more evidence of Naofumi actually just being scared of the situation. The anime isn't trying to get you to sympathize with Naofumi, but the hopelessness of his situation. While someone could say his actions aren't the most virtuous, it would be surprisingly difficult for anyone to do much better under the same situation.

[Tanya]

I believe the Shield Hero is a hero and more believable as one than most.

Most are simply flat characters with no real depth to them. If we were to compare heroes to fictional ones there’d be no such thing as a hero in real life.

And there are plenty of heroes.

The shield hero doesn’t have all good morales but he certainly has some good ones.

  Spoiler:  

The girl certainly understands what slavery is and what freedom means. She simply made her own choice to be by his side. That’s freedom of choice, what she did was exercise her choice.

[unoduetre]

  Spoiler:  

I would say it is highly likely that Naofumi doesn't actually support slavery so much as this is him trying to cover up being scared of being alone in this world that does nothing but haunt him. Remember, from the very beginning he was never actually given a chance to team up with anyone, and then gets betrayed by the whole country, and is basically told just to go die in the invasion. No one will seriously team up with him at this point (as seen in the bar scene), and he can't level up on his own. Raphtalia's "betrayal" as well wasn't as clear in the anime version (or as intense), but basically it only goes as more evidence of Naofumi actually just being scared of the situation. The anime isn't trying to get you to sympathize with Naofumi, but the hopelessness of his situation. While someone could say his actions aren't the most virtuous, it would be surprisingly difficult for anyone to do much better under the same situation.

I don't buy it that he doesn't support the slavery. He clearly stated that he did and he gave a legalist reason for that ("It's legal here so it's fine.") and I trust what he said. I do not see any reason for him to say it if he didn't really mean it.

[unoduetre]

  Spoiler:  

The girl certainly understands what slavery is and what freedom means. She simply made her own choice to be by his side. That’s freedom of choice, what she did was exercise her choice.

Yeah, she just doesn't value her own freedom. That's why I said she has slave mentality.

[drill]

  Spoiler:  

I don't buy it that he doesn't support the slavery. He clearly stated that he did and he gave a legalist reason for that ("It's legal here so it's fine.") and I trust what he said. I do not see any reason for him to say it if he doesn't really mean it.

  Spoiler:  

None of the build up to the final scene would make sense by that logic. The spear hero, who had the same reasoning, was even shot down by the only two level headed heros in the story which also confirms this.

[Tanya]

]

  Spoiler:  

He saved her and has given her the opportunity to save others. To her that’s her ideal path. I doubt the idea of slavery has anything to do with it. I think you are just stuck on the idea of it.

[Momogari]

  Spoiler:  

I think Naofumi feels that slavery is wrong, but also does not feel enough safety in his circumstances to have morals. Realistically, you do need some amount of security to be a good person, and it's understandable that he does not feel that he has that leeway.

I'm fine with saying he supports slavery. I support eating meat since I still do even though I think it's murder.