The lootbox argument

[Nishizono Shinji]

I'm inclined to echo the sentements of Jim Sterling, in that i find the practice of implementing lootboxes and gambling mechanics in an attempt to syphon as much money from a playerbase and prey upon those who may have issues with impulse spending completely deplorable. Such game mechanics should be banned in my opinion, what are other peoples thoughts on the subject?

here's a video with some great insight into the subject.

[video=youtube;7S-DGTBZU14]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S-DGTBZU14[/video]

[Aeri]

I've never heard anyone FOR it (besides the big companies themselves of course)

What are the counter arguments from the players' perspective? (genuinely asking)

[Nishizono Shinji]

I've never heard anyone FOR it (besides the big companies themselves of course)

What are the counter arguments from the players' perspective? (genuinely asking)

the only counter argument from a players perspective i've come across is that most micro transactions are "only cosmetic" or "nobody is forcing you to spend the money" the video I posted rips that argument apart there's testimonials from people with gambling issues talking about how they tried to use gaming to get away from their problem only for it to in some cases make it worse, also examples of how the gaming industry uses psychological profiling and tactics to lure people into spending money regardless if they can afford to or not. I was wondering if anyone was against a full ban on such practices as I for one could do with never seeing a loot box again in my life

[Coding]

The only real argument I see brought up is from some journalists etc who claim without microtransactions/lootboxes, companies like EA can't afford to make and maintain games. Which is complete bs, when you consider the amount they make from sales alone.

[Aeri]

Let's remember that video game addiction alone is very real and these companies want to cash in on the addiction... The games were designed to be addictive before microtransactions but I think what everyone agrees on is....this is just a new low (and I hope I don't sound like I'm belittling that aspect....truly a new low) and more in your face.

[Aeri]

Should it be banned? Of course!

Will it? I doubt it

[GraceMellody]

Personally I LOVE lootboxes, and would rather they weren't banned. However they should definitely have more limitations.

[Skye]

For me (and, seemingly, most government bodies), loot boxes are things you spend real money on for a chance at unlocking certain items. And I not only strongly oppose them, I think they're outright illegal in video games. The reason for that is simple: it's straight up gambling. Video games are available to all ages whereas gambling is illegal for minors. If loot boxes were only present in games with an "M" rating, okay, but that's not the case. It's not even the standard. (Paying real money in-game for a guaranteed item, however, I'm totally fine with.)

There's a pretty good chance something will be done about loot boxes in the US, seeing as congress is leaning more and more toward the "gambling" label. The issue there is: how long will that take? Unless this suddenly and miraculously becomes an election topic, it's likely to get pigeonholed for the foreseeable future after a few "meetings/panels" to assuage the masses.

Considering the resistance governments would get (and are getting) from companies within the gaming industry, I think the most efficient fix would be to require any game with loot boxes (as defined above) to carry an "M" rating. It's not a perfect solution, but it seems like the one most consistent with the law (again, in the US). If it was up to me, they'd be eliminated entirely, but I don't see the legal ability to go further than the rating suggestion. Besides, if that rule were in place, imagine how quickly developers would cut down on the practice. It's also worth noting that some countries have already passed legislation restricting loot boxes in various ways, some even outright banning them. Some states in the US are looking into passing their own laws against them-- Minnesota, apparently, is aiming for the same rule I'm suggesting. It would be interesting to see how things pan out if one state outright banned them while they were still federally legal

[DragonOfDojima]

EA should just get shut down

[Nishizono Shinji]

For me (and, seemingly, most government bodies), loot boxes are things you spend real money on for a chance at unlocking certain items. And I not only strongly oppose them, I think they're outright illegal in video games. The reason for that is simple: it's straight up gambling. Video games are available to all ages whereas gambling is illegal for minors. If loot boxes were only present in games with an "M" rating, okay, but that's not the case. It's not even the standard. (Paying real money in-game for a guaranteed item, however, I'm totally fine with.)

There's a pretty good chance something will be done about loot boxes in the US, seeing as congress is leaning more and more toward the "gambling" label. The issue there is: how long will that take? Unless this suddenly and miraculously becomes an election topic, it's likely to get pigeonholed for the foreseeable future after a few "meetings/panels" to assuage the masses.

Considering the resistance governments would get (and are getting) from companies within the gaming industry, I think the most efficient fix would be to require any game with loot boxes (as defined above) to carry an "M" rating. It's not a perfect solution, but it seems like the one most consistent with the law (again, in the US). If it was up to me, they'd be eliminated entirely, but I don't see the legal ability to go further than the rating suggestion. Besides, if that rule were in place, imagine how quickly developers would cut down on the practice. It's also worth noting that some countries have already passed legislation restricting loot boxes in various ways, some even outright banning them. Some states in the US are looking into passing their own laws against them-- Minnesota, apparently, is aiming for the same rule I'm suggesting. It would be interesting to see how things pan out if one state outright banned them while they were still federally legal

I agree that paying real money for a guaranteed item is not an issue and having loot box mechanics in a Mature rated game may be a viable compromise. I wouldn't care so much of lootboxes only used an in game currency that couldn't be bought or boosted with real world money but the fact of the matter is as it stands it's just outright gambling and no amount of creative wordplay from EA and the like can change that fact. I am still for an all out ban where possible, if people want to gamble there are many websites and places where you can do that but keep that shit away from my gaming experience.

[Nishizono Shinji]

seems a few government bodies are in agreement with us. Belgium has outright banned loot boxes and several other countries have launched investigations into their use and impact on vulnerable gamers.

[GraceMellody]

seems a few government bodies are in agreement with us. Belgium has outright banned loot boxes and several other countries have launched investigations into their use and impact on vulnerable gamers.

Makes me kinda sad, I understand why but I do thoroughly enjoy them


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[Kai]

Honestly I think cosmetics are the worst part of lootboxes, microtransactions or DLC.

I think Free to Play games should stop being free and replace their gacha system with a subscription which offers a set amount of resources a month with in-game quests or events to earn more of them. I'm no stranger to microtransactions but once it becomes clear that the game is straight up Pay to Win garbage, I stop (and yes, not every mobile gacha game is P2W, it just depends how easily you can play through the game without spending and what you can get as well)

I'm going to touch on DLC here as well, but I think DLC should have to be either new characters or a story expansion. Costumes and cosmetics should be part of the game or bundled with character or content DLC instead of sold separately unless the game is some dress-up simulator or anything related to fashion. Games like DoA 5 had over £1k worth of costumes as DLC. Spending £1000+ on one singular game to unlock everything. Let that sink in.