Kimetsu no Yaiba

[Momogari]

I don't think much changed, really. He got his orders from the dude already.

[unoduetre]

Let me find a screenshot.

There is a difference between following orders to achieve one's aims or for better organisation and "loving" and submitting to the person who gives orders (and getting pleasure from that).

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For example, it goes against Inosuke's personality to do the first one, but he can do the second one. I like it in him.

In contrast, Tanjiro is a minion/henchman/lackey/stooge/menial type. I don't like this part of his personality.

[Momogari]

Hmm, I understand what you're saying, but I don't think Tanjiro's had a serious change of psychology. We can definitely see that he values organization, rules, order, and in this context it fits well with his other value in helping people. I don't see anything that suggests this has become more prevalent after meeting the master. I don't think there's any sign that he feels anything abnormal for the master, either, not that wasn't already a part of his personality. He's always recognized the people who have helped him and he feels gratitude and loyalty for it. I think whatever you see here is just that. I see him as doing what he's doing now as having all the same motivations as before.

I can respect Tanjiro's personality in this case just as much, if not more, than Inosuke's.

[unoduetre]

I agree with what you've said. Did I suggest there was a change in his personality? If yes, I didn't mean it. What I tried to say is that this was a consequence of his personality, not a change. I didn't like this part of his personality from the beginning, but I wasn't 100% sure about it. After this episode I'm pretty sure.

There are other elements of his personality I like, e.g. his hard work towards his goal or his love for his sister. But the part I mentioned is something I despise.

Having said that, it's my personal preference what I admire and what I despise. It's not something universal. There are people who admire serial murderers. There are people who admire religious leaders. There are people who despise vegetarians. There are many different kinds of people.

I'm a person who despises people who do not think for themselves and blindly follow leaders. For me this part of his personality makes him at least susceptible to that. This is the reason I don't like it.

I don't expect all people to admire or despise the same things of course. Everyone can decide for themselves.

To clarify: valuing organisation, rules, order etc. is not a bad thing in itself in my opinion. I like good organisation, especially at work. I think helping people is a good thing. Recognising people who help is a good thing as well. Gratitude to them is a good thing. Loyalty, if understood in a certain way is also something good. So I agree with you about these things as well.

The thing I despise is the thing which makes people press the button in the Milgram experiment, whetever it is and however it is called. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

I see Tanjiro as a guy who would press the button, if asked to continue by his beloved leader. At least for now. I wish he were more similar to Tomioka. Tomioka did the right thing regardless of anything, because he understood that doing the right thing and protecting innocent beings, even if they're demons, is more imortant than rules and orders.

[Momogari]

I disagree. We've seen him fight anyone who seriously threatens Nezuko, and that applied to the Hashira as well. I can't imagine him following authority to the point where it conflicts with his values, when he's shown every willingness to fight authority when he knows very well he doesn't have the means to do so.

[unoduetre]

Yes, I agree with you. If it's about his sister he would even fight Hashira. This is something I admire actually.

I was just astonished how quickly he changed his mind about a group of people who wanted to kill his sister not so long ago.

Maybe it's more about the contrast. If my beloved demon sister were targeted by a group of people who wanted to enforce their own rules that all demons must die, I wouldn't become their leader's lackey so quickly. But that's me.

[Momogari]

He doesn't exactly have a whole lot of choice in the matter.

[unoduetre]

And I agree again. But it was shown at the moment I posted the screenshot for that he actually "loved" the leader. It wasn't just a calculation on his part that it would be good to join them etc. He "loved" the leader from his heart. At least that's how I understand this moment.

He always has a choice to "love" or "not love" the leader. He might be forced to work under him etc. But no force can make him "love" the leader, if he doesn't want to do it by his own choice.

[unoduetre]

[mention=6444]Momogari[/mention]

I thought about what you said a bit more. I want to understand your position better. I think I can summarise it in one question. Do you think Tanjiro's feelings towards the boss are just gratefulness, or they're something more? Could it be a mistranslation of a Japanese idiom or something like that?

[Momogari]

I tried finding that shot to listen to it but I can't find it right now and I have to leave. I didn't see anything other than gratefulness, no. I mean loyalty yes, but I think that's tied to the gratefulness.

[unoduetre]

[mention=6444]Momogari[/mention]

It's in ep. 22 soon after 5:40 when Tanjiro does dogeza.

[unoduetre]

[video=youtube;Q-wYeHT6KsI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-wYeHT6KsI[/video]

[video=youtube;2qlNnfHxsR4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qlNnfHxsR4[/video]

[unoduetre]

Ep. 25

  Spoiler:  

Shinobu knows how to motivate people.

[Momogari]

Ep. 25

  Spoiler:  

Shinobu knows how to motivate people.

haha, yes.

[Momogari]

  Spoiler:  

It sounds like he's leaving Nezuko at Shinobu's place.