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    1. #16
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      Re: The Definition of God?

      Quote Originally Posted by VaanDiablo View Post
      If only the stuff we could see were of any note, etc. then life would be a lot more boring than it already is.
      Our observable universe is far from boring, I assure you.

      Have you ever looked at the stars at night, or walked through a forest, or explored the underwater world by diving? The riotous colour, clashing scent, discordant sound and awe-inspiring beauty of our universe is truly amazing, and if none of this moves you emotionally then I find it hard to think you experience emotion at all.
       

    2. #17

      Re: The Definition of God?

      Quote Originally Posted by Yami View Post
      mani, there is a difference between challenging a person's views and finding them false from the start.
      Not really. All that should matter is whether the arguments stand or not, anyway.

      Quote Originally Posted by Yami View Post
      I follow the idea of "What a person believes is true to them" because it is, with that I can question and challenge what they believe but reach a better understanding of what they believe and how it affects them because I don't dismiss it out of hand.
      They are only "true to you" in that you believe they are true. You're saying that if someone believes something, then they believe it - yeah, but that's not saying anything. And it doesn't mean that any claims about the world that are part of their beliefs are necessarily valid.

      Quote Originally Posted by Yami View Post
      As to your statement about abstract ideas, you are assuming that God is an abstract concept created by the mind of man.
      No - I'm saying that the concept of God is something abstract, as are all concepts (the concept of a reptile, a lamp, a triangle, etc.).

      Quote Originally Posted by Yami View Post
      If God exist as something utterly beyond humankind than we think of it in terms of our humanity for we are human, not to mention the limitations to perspective added by experience and limited understanding of our surroundings.
      This is a circular argument: "If he exists beyond our understanding, then he is beyond our understanding." Sure, but you still haven't shown that any abstract concept is beyond our understanding. You're assuming what I'm asking you to prove.

      Quote Originally Posted by Yami View Post
      This doesn't mean I stop at "I can't understand so why bother"
      Actually, that's exactly what you're doing. The "why bother" in your case is hand-waving about mysterious deities and circular arguments in which it is by definition impossible to learn something new about how the real world really works.
      Our world, with its rules of causality, has trained us to be miserly with forgiveness.

    3. #18
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      Re: The Definition of God?

      "Observable reality encompasses literally everything you have ever, and will ever, experience."

      Therefore, what I say is boring, is boring.

      "Not at all. There's no recursion in the strawmen conversations I gave, because one side of each conversation didn't actually offer anything new - and the first side wasn't even asking "why" to begin with, they were asserting something about the other side's argument."

      Ok, I understand where you're coming from there. But my reasoning is that if all you do is argue that someone's point is invalid without giving them reasons i.e. "don't worry about it", then the arguement is unnecessary.

      "Yes, and people without hands can't thumb-wrestle; it doesn't mean that thumb-wrestling is impossible. I don't know what you're getting at here; did you think I said that anyone can do any mental feat, always?"

      Nope, that was covered by me saying you are both right and wrong. It's impossible for someone without eyes or a method of vision or sight from birth to have any concept, abstract or not, of colour. This means that one person cannot experience one thing. But you say "human" and can be talking about the collective - in which case I whole heartedly agree with you. On pretty much everything.


      "Our observable universe is far from boring, I assure you.
      Have you ever looked at the stars at night, or walked through a forest, or explored the underwater world by diving? The riotous colour, clashing scent, discordant sound and awe-inspiring beauty of our universe is truly amazing, and if none of this moves you emotionally then I find it hard to think you experience emotion at all. "

      Don't get me wrong, every time I find out something outstanding and new fireworks blossom in my mind and I shit rainbows for days, once i realise it's still amazing and staying that way, it loses how amazing it is and becomes my idea of boring and that is; "something that doesn't change drastically". If I worked in a mental institute, I'd be shitting unicorns that shit rainbows as long as I focus on the differing actions of the patients, if I looked at the fact they themselves aren't changing from spewing random but lovely shit, the unicorns would die and my rainbows would dissipate.


      "The Bible was written by 10 men. If no one can comprehend God or understand his nature, exactly how was it possible for 10 men to accurately record teachings based on conversations they had with him?"

      I recently created a game concept from scratch with four of my mates. Doesn't mean I've met the anti-bodies we're making the game about, nor do we delude ourselves into thinking they're real.

    4. #19

      Re: The Definition of God?

      Quote Originally Posted by VaanDiablo View Post
      "Observable reality encompasses literally everything you have ever, and will ever, experience."

      Therefore, what I say is boring, is boring.
      Whatever you say, buddy. Gotta say, though, I'm not inclined to think you've got a thoughtful or insightful worldview when you say that literally everything is too boring to bother looking into. Me? Call me crazy, but everything amazing or fascinating that's ever happened to me...happened in reality. So, you know, on the whole I'm pretty happy with "everything." Seems pretty neat.

      Quote Originally Posted by VaanDiablo View Post
      If I worked in a mental institute, I'd be shitting unicorns that shit rainbows as long as I focus on the differing actions of the patients, if I looked at the fact they themselves aren't changing from spewing random but lovely shit, the unicorns would die and my rainbows would dissipate.
      What does this even mean.
      Our world, with its rules of causality, has trained us to be miserly with forgiveness.

    5. #20
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      Re: The Definition of God?

      Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm not happy. I'm just arguing that that arguement can be settled by just saying it's perceptual; "What [i]say is boring, is boring [to me]".

      It means I can look at the changing aspects of something for ever and find it interesting - but then I'm not looking a the whole item, when I start doing that and stop noticing the main but overall small changes, it becomes boring. Like how you change a root folder from visible to invisible all the other folders and items inside it also become invisible, such is my view of the world.

      End all; I'm saying that I can view the universe as a whole and make it boring at will. This doesn't necessarily mean Ii always view the whole shabang as boring. In the end, I suppose all of this was just to get you lot thinking about why everything is mystical. Have you ever had to argue this stuff before? If you have, you're blessed. If you haven't I hope your defending the "inane" has proved fruitful for your own views of the world.

    6. #21
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      Re: The Definition of God?

      I call bullshit to religion. Sorry, but I hate the idea of something stupidly explainable for something so complex such as the universe and all of that within and around it.

    7. #22
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      Re: The Definition of God?

      I once saw Jesus in an ashtray. If nothing else, this proves that ash trays exist. As for what they're best used for, that may be up for debate. Personally I think they can be used for more than just religious mind games, but hell if the neocons will ever agree to that. And you can forget about the tea party right the fuck now. Ultimately, it's just one of those things that needs to be interpreted rationally. But you know what? Fuck that shit. I want to be as insane about this as possible, and I am pretty sure that roughly 50% of Americans (and Canadians too eehehehe) will agree with me on that point. After all, we are all contractually obligated upon being born into this world to respect fear cower in abject terror before the supreme might and wisdom of the Bible and the Christian Faith which our society was originally founded on by the founding fathers who definitely weren't heathens of any sort and actually meant for us to be living under the jackbooted heels of a clandestine corporate theocracy. Don't believe me? Look it up you infidels it's in Revelations probably.
       

    8. #23
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      Re: The Definition of God?

      Dat probably. But seriously, dude that "I once saw Jesus in an ashtray. If nothing else, this proves that ash trays exist." almost made me wet my pants with laughter.

      And you're right, depending on your views of course, that Christianity is very much a fear driven cult. Yet I think the Bible is great. It's, like, the world's best selling self-help book, ever. Literally. All the fables and stories are all about bettering yourself (to the best of my limited knowledge) even if the hymns are a little ott and preachy and let the rest of the book down, somewhat.

      Ever looked up scientology? Based on books written by a convict, now a world renowned religion-cult-smut-thing. It's very possible that every single other biblical writing or religious book is founded in a similar way. At least christianity doesn't preach that you have dead alien ghosts called Thetans living in your stomache and blocking you from transcendance.

    9. #24
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      Re: The Definition of God?

      Quote Originally Posted by VaanDiablo View Post
      I think the Bible is great. It's, like, the world's best selling self-help book, ever. Literally. All the fables and stories are all about bettering yourself (to the best of my limited knowledge)
      You do realise the Old Testament is part of the Bible, right?
       

    10. #25
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      Re: The Definition of God?

      I don't see where you're coming from? Of course, I do realise that part of the Bible is still part of the Bible, irregardless of it's age, but what does that have to do with my comment?

    11. #26
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      Re: The Definition of God?

      My point is that the Old Testament is a book full of genocide, racism, sexism, nonsensical laws, animal sacrifice, superstitious nonsense, jealousy, infanticide, slavery and other such bad shit.

      How you can think that it is in any way great or about bettering yourself is beyond me.
       

    12. #27
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      Re: The Definition of God?

      I don't know about you, Merc, but I always feel better after sacrificing my first born to the almighty invisible man in the sky.

      Self-help at its finest, yep.
       

    13. #28
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      Re: The Definition of God?

      But you don't have any children to sacrifice, Reno.
       

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      Re: The Definition of God?

      My children are of the corn.
       

    15. #30

      Re: The Definition of God?

      Could god create a boulder he couldnt lift?
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      FOR I AM
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